(just to let an certain person know, i made this 3 part rant to resolve this patsoc issue once and for all, i want that this post stays up, and that we can have this conversation, and so the mods can know, i will in fact save the text of all three posts and i will in fact post it again if you decide to delete it, i want to use my rights as an long time user of the community, and the fact this community was made especifically to vent about this stuff, so my rant can stay) Hello, most of you that are using Lemmygrad.ml for the last months probably know me, and people that where using r/Genzedong during its last months also probably know me; i am an brasillian communist, that only last year did in fact become a communist, i have been an very openly anti-western person, and specially anti US, i have aways tried to mantain myself away from drama, both on r/Genzedong and on here, only posted from time to time, and i enjoyed staying both there, while it lasted, and here, till now. Now, you might be asking yourself, if you know my account from Lemmygrad.ml, why am i using my lemmy account when i can just use my lemmygrad one? Well, the answer is simple, i got banned. And i was not the only one, an spanish comrade called SaddamHussain also got banned not just some minutes ago. Now, you might be asking yourself: Why? Why did me and Saddam, 2 communists that have been very active on our community since reddit days have been banned all of a sudden? Well, the answer is not so simple. Recently, less then half a week ago, some drama was born here on our community, and the main issue was about "patsocs", everyone here probably knows about this by now, where a bunch of our members started to openly bash those "patsocs" and an very small ammount of members, me and Saddam included, where arguing that all of this hate was very uncalled for, that this hate was an storm on a cup of water, that "patsocs" (or at least the only 2 patsocs everyone know about, Caleb Maupin and Haz, but i will talk about then in just a minute) where not doing anything really harmfull. This clash of ideas that seemed like just an small argumentation at worst, quickly becamed an absolute mess, where on one side comrade SaddamHussain was trying his best at keeping the conversation at an civilized level, the anti-patsoc members quickly started to attack him and his position, constantly calling him an patsoc (when the only times where he considered himself one was to tell he was an patriot, but patriotism will need an little explanation on this context, wich i wll also explain in a bit), he constantly explained in the most civil way his point of view, never attacking anyone verbally, even when he was basically being difamated at some points, while the other members quickly started saying he just hated natives and palestinians, that he was an xionist, an reactionary, an revisionist, an american fascist (when he is not even american), that he was pro-setler and pro colonialism, (wich if you ask me, is some very dumb things to call an communist that calls himself "SaddamHussain, you know, the Iraquian anti-xionist socialist, that called for pan-arabism to unite all arabian countries and end the borders that he declared that where made by foreign colonialism?) and while i did not want to really participate on it, i was simply not able to see such unfairness happening on front of me and not do anything about it. I started responding to some of the comments constantly attacking him, and i gived my own point of view on the situation, keep in mind, i an not american, nor am i a patsoc (i only watched some shorts clips from caleb and thats it) i am very explicity anti-american, anti colonialism, i am an atheist, and much more other things that i dont think would make me even close to an "patsoc", but some of the "critiscism" being made of both Caleb, SaddamHussain and whatever concept of what "patsocs" even are was so weak, so drived by personal reasons, and specially that it was so god damn badly researched (most people that where asked if they did know who maupin was, or what patsocs even are responded that they did not know), that it was just painfull to watch. Then i started getting involved, but i was not even involved that much, i only writed half a dozen comments trying to defend SaddamHussain. And now i was banned, the comments i writed defending Saddam are being deleted by an certain mod (with i will talk about later), Saddam also got banned and his comments are also getting deleted. Now that this got out of our way, lets see some quick things: Who is Caleb Maupin, what Patsocs actually are, what is patriotism (from an ML pov) and the very unprofessional way the mr.Mod was acting, lets get started: Who the fuck is Caleb Maupin? Well, it is kinda of difficult to explain, but by the videos of him that i watched and from the actual info i got about him, Caleb seems to be an american communist that has an organization focused on teaching socialist ideas to the people, and he acts on certain strange ways; He is very acceptive towards most people in general, including conservative and religious people, not because he has the same opinion of them on certain things conservatives think, like abortion, lgbt rights, etc (he is openly pro-abortion and pro-lgbt rights) but because he argues that if we just discard those people that can be explained ml ideas with enough time just because we disagree with them in some certain cultural parts of society, we are basically giving an free card to fascists to influence those people, i personally agree with them, those cultural views never stoped anyone from being communists, Che guevara, Stalin, Fidel Castro, and lots of other communist figures that where created on very conservative societys did have some anti-lgbt views (but they never acted during their goverments against lgbt people, they just haved bad personal opinions about them, with is fine, as long as people that have anti-lgbt views dont openly act on ways that are made to prejudice lgbt people, their personal opinions can be ignored) or where anti-abortion (while in some cases, some communist leaders, like Stalin or Ceaucesco, only did that because they where worried about bad birth rates, or because of the severe punch the population got after several wars, and in some cases there where leaders that prohibited it because of religious views, on both cases we know now that they acted on incorrect ways, and we should not repeat their errors). Now, a lot of anti-patsoc people might think this means me and Caleb are anti-lgbt rights and anti-abortion, but its not the case, we are just saying that the people that think on that way can still be accepted, as long they keep that to themselves, simple as that, several people here (including anti-patsoc ones) think on this way, so why shame Caleb, me and people trying to defend him? Another view of Caleb that annoyed some people are the fact he likes to use some simbols of american history that have some very bad history behind them as an way to atract the most common people, like the US flags, the founding fathers, etc. Now, this is an tricky position, but i get what he is trying to do, appeasing to the patriots of the country and trying to explain to them an better way to love their country, now, every country has patriot simbols, and most of those simbols are conservative, and because they are conservative, they generally carry some messages that should have stayed in the past, BUT, hear me out, sometimes using those simbols to atract people to the cause can be helpfull, conservatives might not be the best persons to try to convince communism is better then capitalism, but we got to understand, they are the majority, and having at least part of the majority on OUR side instead of the other side, you know, the ones with fascists and nazis armed to the teeth, can be an MASSIVE difference, Imagine if Fidel Castro refused to use the most common people that he could find after the beggining of the invasion was an absolute disaster and he lost almost his entire crew? Hell imagine if che Guevara refused to help fidel because basically his entire crew (with the exception of Raul) was not communist, hell an considerable ammount was even anti communist! imagine if Mao refused to add the farmer population to the communist cause, because most of them where conservatives, or did not like communism because they where told communism is something extremelly bad. You see? Having a close mind when you need allies to fight an extremelly dangerous, much more well prepared, much more influent, and hundreds of times bigger then you, is an recipe to absolute disaster, you become an Gonzalo, or an Pol pot, someone that goes and kick people out of partys for minor things, or kill innocent people instead of convincing them for simple, minor things. The last, and probably the most polemical thing people know about maupin, (caption limit, [see part 2](https://lemmy.ml/post/350604))

is his opinion on Land Back, with i will put an link [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB7DwdCxgtM&t=2s) where he explains his opinion in a more clear way; long history short, he is not against giving land back for the natives, he is pro-landback, but he points out that there is actually 2 land backs; LandbackTM (corporate bs wanting to make money on the natives cause) vs massline Landback (land reform that respects self-determination, treaties, and nature aka actual anti-colonization). He is pointing out how the first one is basically using an much more agressive and corporative view, that is just tainting the movement reputation, much like how corporations make money on race problems or lgbt-rights, doing extremelly ofensive "representations" that just taint the movement as an whole. I think i explained enough stuff about caleb, but i will also put a little more thought on the setler issue quickly: Basically some people misinterpretated something me and Saddam said about the situation on Palestine and Isnt'Real, where when we told how the Israeli population should not support the colonization of palestine, because its not on their best interests EVEN if they get "free land" for their suport. Why should they not support them? because as we all know as marxists, the land is not trully being gived to the israeli population, you see, an funny bearded german guy talked about this 180 years ago, and he said that "the burgeoise own all means of production, and the working class only has their own work value, so they sell it to the burgeoise at bare minimun prices imposed by the burgeoise so they dont starve" very simple right? So in this case, the burgeoise might look like they are giving land, but they are creating an artificial burgeoise at best, why would they give free land for the filthy peasants just for some public support am i right? They are mostly using the israeli population to quickin the process of full colonization of palestine, so if the palestinians revide on any type of way, the xionist midia will flip it as "the barbarian muslins killing our poor white civilians, we need apartheid state now reeeeee!!!!", but when they are able to take the land from the palestinians, they will eventually take the land back from the israelis because of the falling rate of proffit, where when the burgeoise starts making more and more money over the means of production stolen from the palestinians, the israelli workers will not make more money, they will in fact start losing money, and when they are bankrupted by their low wages and increasingly higher prices, they will start losing their land to the burgeoise, with only a few rich burgeoise and petty burgeoise that moved there from the start actually keeping the land, thus creating an artificial burgeoise, getting rid of the palestinians AND taking everything from Israelli workers, three rabits on a single shot, this is why this white supremacist paradise the burgeoise is marketing is not going to last, because capitalism is not going to last because it is not susteinable. Now, some people said that the israellis being coerced into the colonisation will actually keep getting money because Israel will aways be funded by the US and will keep stealing from the countries around it, like syria, Lebanon, etc, and thats because Israel is an imperialist state, with is true for the time being, it is not going to last, like everything capitalism makes us thing it will succed, it awys fails horribly after enough time, imperialism is not susteinable, apartheids are not susteinable, because there is just enough popular apeasing souless capitalist monsters can bother to do to keep their own population in check before its start not being enough, imperialism is agressive towards other countries, and apartheids are agressive towards the majority of the native population, Israel might have looked like the winning side an decade or two ago, but the US eventually will stop giving money, and eventually the countries around it will not support Israel prescense anymore, and eventually the palestinian population will get even more agressive towards the invaders, and eventually even the israelli population will not support their countries actions, like many israellis that are pro-palestine already do (ironically, the most orthodox and conservative jews are some of the most anti-xionists out there, because their own religion says that Israel will only, and should only, be formed on the prophet comes back, so Israel existence is against the judaic religion as an whole), Israel is eventually going to collapse like every apartheid and imperialist state do, and when it collapses, there will not be enough apeasement of the xionists to convince the population that colonialism is still good. An other thing i see debated on this topic is: what should we do with the settler population living on the natives land? Well, its quite simple, we move enough them to other parts of the country (with help and remuneration of the state) and give enough land to the native population live in peace. On the case of Israel, a lot of xionist scum moved there to enjoy an easy life on their apartheid state wet dream, those people can fuck off, xionists are getting kicked out, but the normal israeli population can just be moved to their respective place (where they should have stayed when Israel was created) and the palestinians can keep the land that is rightfully theirs, and of course, be remunerated by because of the damage imperialism did to them. All right, i think i got everything from this issue, lets continue. What the fuck is an Patsoc? Well it is an very shaddy question, as almost everyone here dont have an actual idea of what they are, but from what ive seem from Infrared and Caleb Maupin, with dont actually call themselves patsocs, this is an buzzword used to shame other mls you disagree with, basically an ml version of the word "tankie", what most people here are reffering to when they talk about "patsocs" is or Caleb and Infrared (and just those 2 lol) or are some weird assholes from twitter that are saying dumb shit (classic twitter that we aways make fun of) but somehow those 2 different things, that are 2 communist activists on one side, and twitter nobodys on the other, somehow got related to each other. Now i have talked about Caleb, so i will now talk about infrared; he is an very intense person, and has some weird takes from time to time, but he is not an fascist, or an revisionist, like caleb, he tries to reach the more conservative and liberal population by baiting them with conservative simbols, he is not an rascist, he doesnt hate lgbt people, he is not pro-colonization, he is not any of the things actual fascists are, he is just an communist that uses traditional and conservative talking points to talk with traditional and conservative parts of society, just like caleb. You can say they are flawed, that their methods are flawed, it is fine, but stop lying for fuck sake, stop using words that are not meaning what they should, please actually try to hear what they have to say before making an goddamn idealist purge, and stop using this fucking buzzword and this artificial creation of an "massive evil organization of revisionists we need to fight at all costs", its literally 2 dudes, its not an organization, its not an ideology, so please stop with this infantile ideological purge! its exactly lack of communication and understanding of what one side of comrades is saying to the other is what creates useless discussion that is not leading to nothing besides infighting and hate towards eachother. Now, continuing to the next point... What is patriotism (from an ML-pov)? Patriotism is love for the country, plain and simple, but, we as mls aways make fun of capitalist patriots because they are loving something that hates them, and their love for the country is blinding them from the fact that the burgeoise is scamming then. Now, if capitalist patriotism is bad, then what is communist patriotism then? We are of course, the bigger patriots, we are ready to fight against an ruthless sistem and unite the masses to save our countries from destruction that capitalism brings, but if we are patriots and communists on capitalist nations, how can we exist? Well, its simple, we dont love the burgeoise state, we love the raw country, the people that live on it, the core of it, not the burgeoise on power, we want to kick out the burgeoise and create an socialist state, but an state is not what defines an country, it is what guides and represent the country, the people are the country, our job as patriots to love our people, our country, to liberate them from capitalism as guide them to a better future, we need to help our country by getting ridden of the traitorous burgeoise destroying it for self proffit, and install an ploretarian dictatorship, where the people, the country, is on control of things through the state. This is what patriotism is, love for the country, love for the people, not love for the state. Continuing now to the hardest thing of this entire rant... (Caption limit again (damn this got big) please use [the last part](https://lemmy.ml/post/350584) to talk about the situation, and to read about my last issue...)

Muad'dibber, what the fuck? I used to respect you as an moderator, you are modding lemmygrad for more then a year, much longer then since genzedong got banned, so why now, all of a sudden, you decided to do this? And i want an actual response, dont you even dare to delete my post before people are able of actually reading it, i am going to save everything i writed here and i will post it on subs where you are not an mod, I want this to be an post to clear this mess, and it will stay up, like you or not, till this situation is over; Muad'dibber has on the last 3 days been openly anti-patsoc, and he got since the last day on some nasty arguments against SaddamHussain, me, and PolandAsAStateOfMind, us three where calling out the fact his "critiscism" of "patsocs" was mostly bs, Saddam explained to him on the most civilized way possible why what Muad was saying was just wrong, and Muad started openly diffamating Saddam, calling him an pro israel reactionary, with was when i entered on this mess and sayed to muad how he was lying, how saddam never sayed he was pro Israel, nor pro settler, and the people on the threads where agreeing with me, oh and minutes after getting on the argument with Saddam, Muad created AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY just to diss on "patsocs" with is honestly pathetic, using your power as an mod to openly create propaganda to get an advantage on a fucking internet argument that you are losing?! Oh, and when people started openly saying that no drastic measures where needed, that we should not go at each others throats for something so small, and that there was even people that where being openlly anti-patsoc calling out muad as just being mad at Saddam and Saddam expecifically, and that he was not even trying to make sense anymore. He now has deleted most of saddam comments to cover the facts, is deleting my comments calling him out, banned both me and Saddam (and he did not even give an warning to me) and is putting commentaries on the moderation historic saying we where being "pro-israel", "Reactionary", "patsocs", "pro-imperialism", "pro"colonialism", etc, complete and absolute slanders and petty lies. Now, what i want to do with this, i want this post to stand here so we are able of talking about this issue, i want mine and Saddam account unbanned, i want the Arguments with Muad, Me and Saddam to be unremoved (if possible) so people can see what was happening and make their own conclusions, and i want that Muad come here and defend himself. I have been participating on both lemmygrad AND the former r/Genzedong subreddit since december of last november of last year, i am one of the most active members here, i have proved myself over and over that i am in fact a leftist, and that i am in fact a communist, AND i am not accepting that my entire social life on the internet that resolves entirelly on using this site to talk with other people i agree with gets nucked into fucking oblivion because a single person got mad he lost on an internet argument. Now mods, come here and say everything you want to say, but i want my right of expressing myself on this.